This is a Facebook thread that is in response to this posting.
http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/newsmax-military-coup-would-take-care
David Brooks:
Thanks Katie! I have a few thoughts about this. It is interesting that the Perry article has been removed from Newsmax already too. But, a military coup would undoubtedly lead to civil war in the US, and I do not believe we are anywhere near that point. People are too content with their day-to-day lives. Just because people get pissed off over … Read Morethings like healthcare, abortion rights, gay marriage, etc… doesn’t mean they will revolt.
They complain about these things because they have food, job, water, shelter, most likely a car, and they are not forced into slavery or the military. So, for a democracy to experience a military coup based on the president enacting change that was voted on would amount to a dictatorship. Anyone supporting or propagating this idea should also be considered in support of a military coup/dictatorship. I don’t know if I have ever read anything about a military coup in the USA, except for the attempt in the 1930′s or so when FDR was president. So, it would be interesting to think what people think about this happening. Can anyone actually support a military dictatorship over the moderately liberal reforms Obama has proposed?
Yesterday at 10:59am
Mary:
The military is controlled by obama. I support my troops 100% . I dont not support Obama’s ideas due to the fact he doesn’t listen to the American peoples voice and what they want. Right now my husband is in Iraq fight for our freedom and he is forced to live with a third room mate in a two man trailer. Please tell me why we are funding stupid ideas when we could be saving money and sending more trailers for our troops to live in?
Yesterday at 12:45pm
David Brooks:
Hi Mary! How are you? What I wrote here is my attempt to answer your question and statements. I know that we disagree on some issues, but we both want the same thing. That is for the USA to continue to be great. I tried to explain this as well as I can, please let me know what you think.
I agree that our troops need to have proper care, housing, protection, etc… I support them 100% too. But, this is not Obama’s fault. Our troops didn’t have proper protection or housing when we went there in April of 2002. I think the real problem is we need to care for our troops by bringing them home, not continuing a bad decision by the Bush administration. We are doing this in a supposedly controlled manner, bringing them home by 2011, as long as they are there they NEED to be taken care of and that should be a top priority, I completely agree with you on that.
“The military is controlled by obama.” Yes it is. But, this article refers to a military coup, meaning our army would no longer follow him and they would setup an illegal government using military force. I know a lot of people in the military and not one of them would ever support this idea, I would not either. We are a republic (we are not a democracy) and as such we vote for our representatives. … Read More
“I dont not support Obama’s ideas due to the fact he doesn’t listen to the American peoples voice and what they want.” I understand with the healthcare debates why it would seem that way. But recent polls are showing over 50% of Americans support a single-payer universal healthcare system, similar to canada and britain. What Obama is now supporting is not that liberal, he wants to keep private interests involved. Which is wrong. People should not profit off of other people’s misery. That is fundamentally wrong.
Obama was also elected to be president, he was clear when he said he supported single-payer universal health care and the people voted for him. They voted for change. If you do not support him that is okay, but I would like to see your argument for how the American people did not vote for him. Do you think McCain won the election?
Ok, so you asked, “why we are funding stupid ideas when we could be saving money and sending more trailers for our troops to live in?” I am not 100% sure what you mean by stupid ideas, but I would have to think you mean health care reform, education and that sort of reform, is that correct? I would say we are deciding to fund this, and exit Iraq because we (as a country) feel that people deserve proper health care and that war is not solving any of our problems, but rather creating many more problems.
I understand what you are saying. I am also concerned with our country losing the capitalistic and competitive characteristics that made it unique and powerful. But so far, the reforms we are witnessing will not do this. The bank bailout was stupid, but that should warn us of the power these banks have, they control our politicians both democrat and republican or Lieberman. This is my concern, not a military coup, but a banking/financial coup. It has been underway for some time now, and so far the people have willingly supported it.
I think what we really need is to stop the government from growing as much as it has. Do we really need to have military troops and bases in 63 countries? We have our troops in 156 countries! There are only 46 countries with no US military presence. This is absurd and the only reason to do this is to exercise world control. We need to support our people, our troops and the citizens of the USA. We do not do this by sending them to Iraq or Afghanistan to fight in wars that are not logical, rational or necessary. Instead we should support our troops and people by letting them lead their own lives, but also we need to make sure they are healthy, they do not commit crimes and that they are educated. If Bush didn’t pass $1.6 trillion in taxcuts to the richest 1% of the country, if we didn’t go to war with Afghanistan or Iraq, we would be able to provide FREE college education to every high school graduate in the country AND provide FREE health care to everyone too. We make choices everyday and we have to live by them later on in our lives. We are in debt because past administrations have spent money like it is free. We are currently spending too much money, I agree. But, the solution is not to make people poorer, unhealthier and dumber and then send them off to war. The solution is to help people so they have an opportunity to actually succeed.
Yesterday at 1:28pm
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
Katie, can I add your friend David to my friends list?
Yesterday at 5:16pm
Mary:
yes people need health care but what he doesn’t say is how his idea of health care reform will add to our debt. My idea is do away with co pays which will make private health car more affordable for every one. A government run health care will be dictated by the government. Yes i do agree bush wasn’t the greatest leader but i am still waiting for some one to actually run this country the way it should be.
Yesterday at 7:47pm
Mary:
Obama is the one turning people against him self by sturing the pot.
Yesterday at 7:48pm
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
Hey, Katie, should I call my friend Stefan?
Yesterday at 7:51pm
Katie:
Um. Unless there was also some kind of cap on premiums, insurance companies would charge their insured in different ways to make up for the loss of co-pays. That solution also doesn’t address the various other problems with our health care system, including pre-existing condition exclusions, ballooning costs, etc., that get in the way of meaningful… Read More coverage if they can afford coverage at all.
I’m not sure what you mean by saying that Obama is turning people against himself by stirring the pot. I certainly have a lot of criticisms of Obama (mostly concerning his failure to stir the pot enough for my liking), but I’m not calling for a military coup to remove the duly elected leader of our country from power. I didn’t do that when Bush was in power either, and I think he’s a lying war criminal (among other things). But please do keep in mind that Obama was elected BECAUSE people wanted the kinds of change he promised.
This is not exactly an easy climate to be a political leader in, if there even is such a thing. A lot of people are going to be frustrated with the President for a variety of different reasons. That’s not the point, and no one has said it’s the point, so I’m really not sure why you’re bringing it up, but if you want to make vague complaints about Obama you can probably find a better place to do it.
Yesterday at 8:16pm
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
David, can I add your friend Katie to my friends list?
Oh, wait, she’s already on it! Nevermind.
Yesterday at 8:19pm
Justin:
David, can we get married? I’m pretty sure after Obama renders the military homeless and kills everyone’s grandma with Nazi medicine, he’ll OK homo love.
Mary:
katie, people have been talking about branching off from the current US because of Obama’s policies.Why do you think there was talk about military want to get rid of him. This what I mean. Obama is stirring the pot by saying things he has no clue about which in return is making people mad. Yes a cap needs to be in place on private health insurance … Read Morecompanies. Instead of a government run health care, Obama needs to work out terms with private companies to keep health care at a affordable cost for people. I respect your view points and yes i do agree that the military shouldn’t be involved in getting ride of him. People need to vote smart in 2010 and vote some actual and honest people in to office. And my first response was not about this article it was in response to what David said. I do get mad at the fact that people have called our military a dictator ship. My husband is nothing like a savage and a dictator. All he does is his job and he does what he is told. I think its wrong to label our military as a dictator ship when 99% of the men and women do what they are told by our president. My point is a president was elected from a state that is well known for corrupt politics and we have him as a leader. there will always be some thing posted about getting rid of Obama by the people of this country. People are not happy with the way Obama is handling situations here in the US. Yes people weren’t happy with bush either but all we have seen Obama do is have star power when we need some one to lead us, not be on talk shows and magazines. This is why people post stuff about” Getting rid of Obama.” I am sorry if i am sounding mean.
10 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
Are you seriously wasting your fourth floor privileges by typing THIS shit? You realize they’re not infinitely patient at psych institutions, right? Next thing you know they won’t even let you play with the other patients outside. I suggest calling your mom next time.
10 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
By the way, you’re not sounding mean, you’re just sounding stupid. Mind-blowingly so, I might add.
See, I’M sounding mean. Correct, but mean.
10 hours ago
Justin:
This thread is amazing. Amazing in that it makes me wish I lived in another country.
9 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
I’ll switch with you. Fuck America’s Hat.
9 hours ago
Mary:
hanes your the dumb one. I did say yes its not right that using the military to get obama out is not the best answer. Now i am going to be mean and tell you that your full of crap for believing in a racist, go no where, bitter, idiot. He is creating problems in this Country and people wonder why stuff is being posted about Getting rid of Obama. … Read MoreObama is a moron. because of trash like you our country will never be the same. you need to take a history class and a government class and actually watch and listen to what a tool bag obama is. please tell me why people are becoming angery with him due to the fact that every time he talks he sounds more arrogant? All he does is jam more half assed ideas down our throats. Tell me how is that stupid??? I tried to be nice.
9 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
My the dumb one what? What did my the dumb one do?
9 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
By the way, I love the true colors there, Mary. Did you trade your pills for someone’s lunch? The orderlies really need to keep a closer watch on you people.
9 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
Oh, lastly, I have to say that I literally laughed out loud when you told me to take a history class.
By the looks of you, I figured you liked having things jammed down your throat.
9 hours ago
Mary:
hey you started this not me. you even stupider for believing in a start power leader. you can kiss my ass and i was trying to be respectful to the other people posting comments about this obviously your a jerk and i let the best of my self get to me because of your poor choice of words.
9 hours ago
Mary:
your
9 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
Are you gagging on “your”?
9 hours ago
Justin:
Mary, one can’t get rid of the president because one disagrees with his plans for health care reform. That is not the way this country’s government works, which you should probably understand before you tell other people, who actually are not from our country, to take classes.
When a president is elected, by a majority of the popular vote, … Read Morethose in the minority who didn’t vote for him being upset with certain policy issues is not sufficient reason for removal from office or secession. Your husband is at war right now because our last president lied to the world, and in so doing, killed tens of thousands of innocent people, not to mention thousands within his own military. That’s perfectly OK, but, suggesting that perhaps the government should extend medical care to the uninsured, in the same way it currently extends medical care to the elderly and the poor, is cause for a fit like the one you’ve thrown tonight? Perspective, darling. Order a big dish of perspective with a side of stability.
The United States has survived stupid presidents, crazy presidents, sick presidents, [legitimately] racist presidents, etc. If you really think the current president, despite his modest faults, is ruining the country, based on the evidence you’ve presented tonight, you not only need to take both a government and a history class, you should also probably start getting your news from someone other than the illiterate Klan member at the other end of the diner counter.
9 hours ago
Mary:
wait your telling me that our president is a great leader when over half of america is mad at him and you calling me stupid??? well isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black.
9 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
You know the guy. He’s the one who gave you $30 for a BJ in the back alley.
9 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
Over half of America thinks you’re a fucking idiot. Does that make you a fucking idiot?
Wait, scratch that analogy. It totally doesn’t work. Ummm…
8 hours ago
Mary:
I know justin i don’t agree with the military getting rid of obama. no it wasn’t right for some one to post a article about using the military to get rid of obama. Un like Hanes I do believe that Obama does deserve a chance to prove him self as our leader. I get mad at the fact that people label our military as nazi and communist savages when my family is involved in our military.
8 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
NO WAY I SAY OBAMA STINKS AND HE ALSO SMELLS BAD AND WE SHOULD GET THE NAZI MILITARY TO GIVE HIM A BATH AND THEN TAKE HIM TO SOME REALLY BAD MOVIES SO HE WON’T BE ABLE TO BE PRESIDENT BUT WILL BE REALLY ANNOYED INSTEAD
8 hours ago
Mary:
hey hanes a crappy joke is all you can come up with in reply to my last comment? wow you must have had your nuts kicked by my comment because you couldn’t have come up with any thing better to say.
8 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
I guess all my good comments got jammed in my throat. I would’ve thought you’d sympathize from experience. Thanks a lot, ass.
8 hours ago
Mary:
Katie, david, and justin i do respect your views and i hope that i am not mean to any of you.
8 hours ago
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
No you don’t. You don’t respect their opinions at all. You think they’re idiots — brainwashed fools who have let themselves be corrupted by Obama’s trickery. Jesus hates you and you’re going to H E double hockey sticks for SURE.
Mary:
when some one says i am stupid its on because in order for that person to call me stupid they have to know how our government works. I am aware of how our government system works in every way. what i don’t like is a foreigner calling me stupid when they have no clue what they are saying. I am trying to be respectful of peoples view points but yet … Read Moreits shown how childish people can be. My first response i didn’t call any one names and i wasn’t trying to be mean. Justin i guess i am a redneck person that is literate. You can thank the NO child left behind act for that. Hanes nazis almost killed my grandpa in WW2. My husband, my brother, and my best friend are nothing like nazi’s. Justin i do listen to the local news. Yes obama has his faults but so does evry other president. What bugs me is how big of a pedestal people are putting him on when it hasn’t been a year yet. People are getting mad at the fact that he hasn’t done what they wanted.Thats all i was trying to say and i was trying to be respectful of other peoples views. Instead people(including my self ) acted child like with name calling.
Vanessa:
Tag and a half, yo.
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
Yeah, if you weren’t so childish and stopped insulting people, maybe we could get a real discussion going here.
Vanessa:
Lol.
YOU SMELL HANES!!!
Also, learn to spell your own name, yo.
Mary:
I wonder what is the longest comment link that has happened on facebook?
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
I wonder sentence how put you a together.
David Brooks:
Wow, I can’t believe that I went and saw Surrogates and missed this thread. Here is a link to the whole article too, Newsmax removed it for some reason. http://bit.ly/17MIzA Ok, first off, most of this thread is not really relevant to the debate some of us are trying to have and is not helpful either. Name calling and bullying are not constructive, whether you are liberal or conservative. I would also like to add that it is the debate between liberals and conservatives that has made this country great. We are a mixture of people with all different ideas and we each have a say in what happens to this country.
I do not believe our military is a dictatorship by any means either, but this article is talking about an authoritarian government controlled by our military, ie martial law, check points, searches and seizures, wiretapping, warrant-less arrests and a number of great things like that. I don’t believe any American really wants that to happen.
On health care reform, I do believe that reform involving a single payer government option would not cost the US as much as we are paying now. The problem we are facing now has a lot to do with doctors doing unnecessary tests and procedures that are costly and the high costs of prescription drugs. Single Payer health care is where we essentially get a big group of people together and we use our leverage as a population to get better deals. I believe that a co-op can to do this effectively too, (imagine Health Partners, a co-op, but better) but the bottom line is we need to have everyone covered and we CAN do this at a cheaper rate then what we pay now. …
What we have now is a system where an insurance company, pharmaceutical company and doctors all benefit from people being sick. It is in their best interest to make people believe they need to get help. We have commercials that tell people they need pills for anxiety, sleeping, sex, depression, allergies and a number of other issues that everyone seems to have all the time. So, these commercials encourage people to ask their doctors for a brand, “I need Viagra!” For example.
So, these people get their prescriptions, go to the pharmacy and buy their pills. They pay the co-pay. Meanwhile the doctors get paid hundreds of dollars for even speaking with you, the pharmacy gets hundreds of dollars for a few pills and the insurance company charges everyone else higher rates. This is called a broken system.
I have two articles about healthcare here they are. #1——–> http://bit.ly/lAEFL
#2——–> http://bit.ly/iDcJI
Okay, a few more things. Mary, you mentioned that,
“He is creating problems in this Country and people wonder why stuff is being posted about Getting rid of Obama. … Read MoreObama is a moron. because of trash like you our country will never be the same. you need to take a history class and a government class and actually watch and listen to what a tool bag obama is. please tell me why people are becoming angery with him due to the fact that every time he talks he sounds more arrogant? All he does is jam more half assed ideas down our throats.”
While I do not think Obama is the smartest President we have had, that is Jimmy Carter. Obama is pretty clearly second. He was head of the Harvard Law Review and he was top of his class at Harvard Law, the first black person to do so. He is a very articulate, intelligent, and careful person.
People are posting stuff on the internet about getting rid of Obama and I don’t really have a problem with it. I don’t think anyone should advocate killing him or a dictatorship, that doesn’t really help anything, but it is freedom of speech. For me I won’t say that stuff about Obama, and I didn’t say that stuff about Bush. I respect our president. If Obama actually starts don’t the road towards a dictatorship that is communist or based in Nazi ideology I would revolt and I would hope all of you would do the same. However, Obama has not done one thing to make me believe this will happen.
Bush did some things that concerned me, and I do believe we are going through a more authoritarian period for the President, with Bush and Obama, but I would not have advocated for a military coup or revolt against Bush.
“I get mad at the fact that people label our military as nazi and communist savages when my family is involved in our military.” I get mad at this too, I think it is disrespectful and ignorant. Similarily, when people call Obama a Nazi or have him dressed as a monkey, that is also disrespectful and ignorant. Fortunately for these people and for us all, we live in a country that has freedom of speech, so Obama can’t do anything, like have these people killed.
It is disconcerting that so many people have put Obama on a pedestal, I think that some of the resentment he gets is because so many people unconditionally support him. He has created a little following based ALMOST entirely on his personality and likability. But, there is a lot more to Obama then just his speeches. He is intelligent and extremely considerate of his opposition. A lot of liberals think Obama is being too considerate of the republican opposition. He could have a mandated government controlled single payer system making it illegal to have private insurance if he wanted it, but he has listened to the 10% or so of Americans who are advocating the status quo.
It is really important for anyone who engages in a discussion about politics to realize that politics is a lot like religion. We all think we know, but none of us know the absolute truth. Just because the preacher stands up and tells you that there is a heaven and there is a hell does not make it true.
Just like with anything going on in government you have to be watchful of where the money goes and who has the power. Just because Obama says something does not make it true. But for the same reason many people are religious I say, “It is better than the alternative.” We can either not do anything and watch our country fall apart eventually and we will be a second rate power to the superpower of China, or we can try and raise our quality of life, balance our budget and change the way our systems work.
I am hoping that Americans can prove that we can have this debate about reform in a respectful, intelligent and rational manner. We are seeing the first 8 months or so of Obama’s first term, we have a long way to go and these debates will continue.
Mary I hope that you will continue to advocate your position and your beliefs, even if I don’t agree with all of them. We are all in this together and for some unknown reason America always seems to bounce back better and stronger, this will happen this time around too.
Katie:
Well, that’ll teach me to go to bed early. I’m not sure I can say anything without it being a frustrating and exhausting endeavor, so I’m going to go ahead and not say anything more on this.
Hanes Bezuidenthustra:
Fuck you, David. I never liked you anyway. Quit raping baby animals.
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